Transgender to Transformed: An Interview with Laura Perry Smalts

In this episode, I interview Laura Perry Smalts, who lived for nearly a decade as a transgender man named "Jake," before realizing the deception of the transgender lifestyle and leaving it all behind. Now Laura not only embraces her true identity as a woman and shares her story at churches, conferences, and more, but she and her husband have also created a nonprofit ministry, Eden's Redemption, to help others find the same freedom she now has.

Find Laura Perry Smalts online at: https://edensredemption.org/
Order her book "Transgender to Transformed" at: https://transgendertotransformed.com/

Find me online at: https://www.donawatson.com/

Look for my new nonfiction book coming April 2024: "Be the Warrior Queen: Practical Christian Strategies for Women to Achieve Victory in a Chaotic World"

#transgender #redemption #Jesus

Transcript

Dona Watson: 0:00

I am so excited to have with me today, Laura Perry Smaltz, and she has an amazing story to share with us today. Welcome, Laura. I'm so glad you're here with me.

Laura Perry Smalts: 0:13

Thank you so much for having me on.

Dona Watson: 0:16

It's my pleasure. So give us a little highlight. I know that the Lord has done some amazing things in your life. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Laura Perry Smalts: 0:28

Yeah, the Lord has given me the amazing opportunity to travel and speak and to share what he's done in my life. And I like to, you know, people always ask me to share my story, but I, I like to say that I share the Lord's story because this is really all about him. And you know, I, so I grew up in a Christian home and we were one of those families that we were at church every time the door was open, And was involved in all the little programs. And I remember being involved in Bible drill, you know, memorizing tons of scripture and I loved Bible drill, but I really, I really never understood the gospel. And I think one of the things that was so difficult is I grew up being told I was a Christian. And I think I assumed because my parents were Christians, I was supposed to be a Christian, never really understood that it was a personal decision that I needed to make. And so there was this rebelliousness in me that didn't like the fact that I couldn't make my own decision. And there was a lot of other things I could have pointed to. You know, there's a lot of people that have hurt me. I really struggled in my relationship with my mom and I, I used to blame her for a lot of things, but now I've realized, you know, we're all sinners raising other sinners, none of us could be the perfect parent. And the reality is there is a lot of brokenness in our relationships, even the most godly of relationships. We're all, we're all sinners. And I think one of the most profound things that I've learned is that children don't have the same perspective that a parent does. We're all created for the Garden of Eden. We're created for a world that's perfect, for a world that never had any sin or pain or disease or war or any of these things. And so when we encounter brokenness, especially as a young child, we tend to think it's just us. And why is my life so bad? You know, why did I get the short end of the stick? And I, I think we, we tend to blame God. And so I think even as an early child, I was, as a young child, I was very angry at God for making me a girl. I had this perception for some reason that my mom loved my brother more than me. I didn't understand the pain that she was going through that she had miscarried two boys between my brother. And so that was part of it. And part of it, just personality differences. But my mom also was going through a tremendous amount of stress. She was in a lot of pain. She started having chronic health problems. And so a lot of my perception of her not wanting me around, not wanting to be with me was her just being really too stressed to handle life. She's told me since then, she used to feel like she was on this performance treadmill for God. never able to do enough, never being good enough. And so, but I began to internalize so much of that. And as a result, I built walls against her. And there's a verse in Proverbs that struck me recently that said, he who builds a high gate invites destruction. And I, I think that's a lot of what happens to young kids is we, we build walls, we make inner vows. We say, I will never be like so and so, you know, I'll never let that person hurt me again. And, but it's kind of like, you know, in ancient days, if a kingdom built walls around itself, if the enemy really wanted to, couldn't get inside the walls, they would just lay siege outside. And so the enemy uses those opportunities to to really starve us in a sense. You know, the thing I'm cutting off is what I needed so much. I needed the love of my mother and I needed to let her in and I needed to forgive her but I didn't understand that. And as a result, I was very uncomfortable around girls. I didn't know how to talk to the girls at school. They were weird and foreign and awkward. Whereas I spent all my time with my dad and my brother. So that was very familiar. And as I grew up, I always had this sense that I was not like the other girls and I had this dissociation and I was told over and over and over many, many times in my childhood that I was just like my dad. And I know, I know it was meant well, you know, maybe it was, I mean, I don't understand the motivation, but kids, you know, we desperately need both parents. Kids need to hear how they're like their same sex parents. Cause it's not about stereotypical interests. God has wired and designed us. And I can get into more of that later of what I'm studying and really teaching on a lot now. God has designed us, revealed that there's over 6,500 biological differences between men and women and nearly every part of our body is designed as sex specific. There are many differences between us that have nothing to do with what we're interested in and really not, even, really not anything to do with personality. So it's easy sometimes, and I think the enemy kind of capitalizes on that and says,"Oh, you're like this person." But there's a reality to the way that God has designed us. It's so much deeper and more profound than that. But of course, I didn't understand that. And so as a kid, as I was getting angry about being a girl, wishing that I had a boy body, and I would write stories about me being a boy, and really lived in this fantasy world playing video games a lot. I spent enormous amounts of time in video games and fantasizing about what if I had been the boy. And then when I was 14, I was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome. I had cysts all over my ovaries. So I was in constant chronic excruciating pain. And I was so angry that God made me a girl. I didn't want my period in the first place. I didn't want this female body. And then to have that much excruciating pain all the time. And then I was told I would likely never get pregnant. And I was so angry at the Lord and I really turned away from the Lord. I told him I would never serve him again. I wanted nothing to do with Christians. I wanted nothing to do with church. I told God I wanted to sin in every way possible because I just wanted to hurt God and hurt my parents that I blamed. And so I started trying to find love in all the wrong ways. Got into a lot of sexual sin. I started giving myself away for free for, you know, any man that wanted it, any man that would pay attention to me. So hoping that I would find the love that I was so desperately longing for and to be valued and to be accepted. Because I really never heard the word transgender. So that wasn't even on my radar that that was possible. Otherwise I probably would have tried to transition at a much younger age, but I was just not even aware of that possibility. So it was like, well, you know, if I have to live like this, then I'm, I'm going to live in a way that feels good in a way that makes me feel valued. So I thought that getting the attention of men would give me the value I was seeking. But I didn't realize that me giving myself away for free, I was the one devaluing myself. I was the one telling them I had no value because I used to blame these men for using me and abusing me. I felt I was rejected and dumped and just abused over and over and over and over again. But the Lord revealed to me that, later, that, you know, I was the one telling them I had no value. And it was kind of, God gave me an analogy this summer as my husband and I had a garage sale. And we, we finally put this table out there marked"free" and just all this junk we didn't want and you know, things that are labeled free have no value. And it's like, it, it might be useful to someone for a little bit, but there, that's not going to be some real treasure. And I didn't understand the value that I had and how God saw me as a woman and how he intended for a man to see a wife as such a valued treasure. So I was just so broken and I felt so used. And I remember thinking the reason this never works out, the reason I'm never happy is because I was supposed to be the man. If I was the man, I know how to treat a woman. And so I, I found a support group in Tulsa. I literally just started researching this idea on Google. Does anyone ever felt like this? And then I began to discover the word transgender. I found all these people that felt like I did. I found a support group. And within five minutes of the support group, they're like, Oh, you are definitely transgender. I was like,"I knew that! I knew this was me." And so that's really what began. In fact, I remember one of them said, I was worried I would never look like a man. They said,"Oh, don't worry about it. After a year or so of hormones, no one will ever know you were a girl." And that's really what began to set that hook in me and begin to draw me into that lifestyle. But the further I went in that lifestyle, I had all the legal changes, like hormones for nine years. You know, I began to get facial hair and body hair, voice begin to get lower, and it seemed like it was getting real, but I was so aware that this was artificial. I was binding my breasts. I was injecting myself with testosterones, like in a sense, like I kept trying to convince myself this is who I was born as. I was supposed to be a male. I just somehow had the wrong body, but I knew I was doing this artificially. And then I, a couple years later, I had a double mastectomy and eventually I had a hysterectomy and had the ovaries removed. And I remember being so devastated because I realized that this didn't make me a man. And no matter what I was doing to my body, this wasn't real. And sorry.

Dona Watson: 9:22

No that's fine.

Laura Perry Smalts: 9:23

It still gets very emotional for me. But I remember being so devastated and realizing that no matter what I was doing to my body, I was never going to be a man. And I began to wonder, what does it even mean to be a man or a woman? I really didn't know. And, but I had so many people around me. My parents never affirmed it, but I had so many people around me that did. And I remember I had this job where I was only known as male. They didn't even know I was trans. And I was standing in this group of guys one day, just talking to them. And I had this deep realization, not just this feeling of not feeling like I fit in. That was different. But this was a deep inner knowing that had to be from the Lord, but I just couldn't escape it that I knew at the core of my being that I was not like them, there was something different. There was something that separated me that was like I, I just understood that there was a difference between male and female and I was never going to be a man. And I began to wonder, what does that even mean? I don't know what it means to be a man or a woman. But during that time, and I got very suicidal I, I just couldn't, there was no way I wanted to go back to being a woman. I realized I couldn't be a man; there was no way I wanted to be a woman, it was just too painful, and I really didn't even know why it was so painful. All I know is I just cringed every time I thought about being a woman. I just would rather die, but the Lord had been pursuing me during that time. God began to reveal himself to me and my parents were praying and they got a lot of other people praying with them and the whole church was praying and the Lord just began to pursue me and I can't explain it other than God just began to draw my heart back and he began to reveal himself to me through a series of lots of events, lots of things he brought into my life: over the radio, people he brought into my life you know, tracts that were left on my car, all kinds of things. And the Lord began to reveal himself to me. You know, it's the, the Bible says it's the goodness of God that leads to repentance. And the thing that I've learned, there's so much connection between bitterness and unforgiveness, being bitter about our circumstances, being angry at God for things that happen in our life. A couple of years ago, the Lord, I was watching hundreds and hundreds of testimonies one weekend of just all walks of life from, you know, these little testimony videos. And in almost every case, there was some form of this question that, that turned them away from the Lord. Some, maybe not the exact words, but something to the idea of:"if God is good, why did he allow this in my life?" And I realized that in most cases, that's what turns people away from the Lord and sin becomes more enticing as we turn our heart away from the Lord. And I realized that, you know, the flip side of that is, it's the goodness of God that leads to repentance. So as God began to reveal himself to me and how good he is, then I began to see how much God loved me. And I began to understand who God is. And I began to want God in a way I never had before. And the other amazing thing that after everything that had happened in my childhood and all the problems I had with my mom, the Lord had been working on her that whole time. And she'd really surrendered me into the Lord's hands. And as he began to transform her, I'd begin to open my eyes to what he was doing in her. And, you know, a lot of parents get upset because there's, there's these long breaks where their children won't talk to them and they've cut them out of their lives. That was actually an incredible blessing. One, because my mom didn't have to think about what I was doing every day, which was good. She didn't need to know all the sin I was in, but also it was, because of that time, I was able to see incredible changes in her. And every time I would get back together with her and my dad, which may have been months or years between, but I could see what God was doing in them. And that's ultimately a lot of, it wasn't the only thing God used. God used lots of other things. I ended up at a job where my boss was a Christian. So it's not like that. God does, he has many options. I mean, God has endless resources. I think sometimes we as parents or as loved ones, we think if I, if I'm not in my child's life, they're not ever going to hear about Jesus. And that's a really narcissistic view of Christianity. And we've got to remember that God has resources all over the planet, that he can use anything to bring your child to Christ. But he ended up showing me what he'd done in my parents. But I also want to say that he can use you for somebody else's life, because one of the things, God used lots of things I heard over the radio, things left on my car, I had this boss, but for the most part, one of my first thoughts when I got saved is: where were all the Christians? I had very few people come up to me and share their faith. And so we can, as Christians, why are we not out there sharing our faith? We're so worried about our own child or our own loved one, but what about the millions of souls around you that need Jesus? Are you as concerned about them? And so that, that was one of my first thoughts that really grieved me. And so I really wanted to share my faith a lot. And I, I ended up getting radically saved. The Lord so transformed me when I gave my heart to the Lord and begin to repent of all my sin and begin to just desperately want the Lord and want everything he had for me. And I began to pursue the Lord. And as I did, I thought I could be a man of God, but the Lord began to pursue me. And even more and begin to convict me of the life I was living and begin to draw me out of that life and as I did, I finally walked away from it all and it was the hardest thing that I have ever done in my life. But God began to like, little by little, begin to heal me begin to peel the layers off of me. He began to, as I began to forgive my mom, as I began to forgive those that had hurt me, as you know, I began to forgive all the men that had hurt me in the past, and I began to repent of my own sin, and it was like layer by layer, and as God peeled it all away, who I really was began to emerge, and I began to realize I was never that person--that, that identity that I had created. I was always who God, I was always the girl Laura, that God had created. And as that began to emerge, I began to embrace being a woman more, I begin to love being a woman more, and I began to love God's design of male and female. And I began to ask the Lord to teach me about his design of male and female. And then I began to desire a husband. I began to pray and God gave me a vision of traveling around the country, with a husband sharing these things. I had already been traveling around the country quite a bit, sharing my testimony, but God began to give me a vision of teaching God's design in male and female with a husband. And so that's when you can see the picture in the back there. God brought this incredible man into my life. And so we were married about two years ago. His name is Perry. And if you're confused by the name, my maiden name is Perry. That's why I go by Laura Perry Smalts, his first name is Perry. So God has a sense of humor, but it's been amazing to see. And now just recently we've opened our own nonprofit ministry to teach and equip the church on how to talk about gender and sexuality and really, our heart is to teach, among other things, but our, one of our big focuses is to teach God's design of male and female, and why this is so important, the beauty that Satan is trying to steal from these kids. God has an incredible design for male and female that is so good. And I think, you know, it's just been lost in our culture, but God's ways truly are so much better.

Dona Watson: 16:54

Wow. Yes. His ways are better. I love how you talked about the layers that he can peel and he does, he does peel away. And that he makes us to be somebody specific and no matter what we do, no matter how far we run, we are still that person. We are still that core person that he created us to be. And when we give ourselves to him, he just starts peeling those layers back. And sometimes when we don't give ourselves to him, he still peels those layers back.

Laura Perry Smalts: 17:32

Right. That's great.

Dona Watson: 17:35

The hound of heaven.

Laura Perry Smalts: 17:36

Yes. Yeah. I did not want to be a Christian. I didn't want to be pursued. I did not, I didn't want God. But over the years he softened my heart a little more and a little more, profound things I heard over the radio. People need to not forget. Cause sometimes when you're on radio or a podcast like this, you think,"Oh, who, you know, nobody's going to listen to that." And you see that a couple of comments from scoffers or whatever, you know, but you never know who's listening. And it can have a profound impact.

Dona Watson: 18:06

Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I also love how you said about value and acceptance. I think often that is a sticking point for us where the enemy lies to us and tells us that we have no value, that nobody loves us, and that is just so wrong, so wrong. God loves us. If nobody else says they do, God is there.

Laura Perry Smalts: 18:37

Right.

Dona Watson: 18:39

And pursuing us and loving us with all of his heart. So tell me a little bit more about the non profit organization that you guys are working, that you, you just started this up, what, this year? Last year?

Laura Perry Smalts: 18:53

Yeah, no this year in, in January, it is called Eden's Redemption. And the reason for that, we initially were going to call it Created for Eden because we really had a heart to teach God's incredible design, that male and female was a good design, even though we're broken, we're under the curse of sin, but God's design is so powerful and it, it's so profound because it's not just good, but it points to our relationship as Christ and the bride, it represents the church and Christ. And so and really male and female really represents our relationship with God. And there's so many characteristics and aspects that God has revealed in male and female, and we reflect those to one another. So those are some things that God really had on our heart. And it was actually kind of funny. It's a long story, but we were kind of devastated. We realized that somebody else had already had that name and it just felt like this. We were really crushed because we really had our hearts set on that. And when we realized that God was wanting to take it a step further and talk about the redemption of all things that God has not only has created a perfect design, but that we will all for those that belong to Christ that we will live eternally. Those that don't belong to Christ will die eternally. They will miss out on God's redemption that he's going to create a new heaven and a new earth that will be the perfect paradise that we were all created for. And I love JRR Tolkien has a quote that said that we are all well now I can't remember the quote. Shoot. I had it memorized at one point, but basically said that we are all, that our whole existence basically is soaked with the sense of exile. And you know, we really are exiles here. We're longing for what we were created for. And I think even as children, they don't realize that they're in an imperfect and sinful world. They're created. We're all created for the Garden of Eden. That's what God intended. We're born into this world of sin. But I think that ultimately we want to highlight the fact that God wants to redeem, not only in this life and there is redemption that God is doing now. He redeems our souls, our spirits, redeems relationships. There's so much healing that God brings, but that ultimately he is going to redeem all of creation. Everything that we're longing for in this life are things that God has already promised. I think if you go back to the Garden of Eden, everything that Adam and Eve longed for, God had already promised them. And I think Satan tries to get us to satisfy legitimate needs in illegitimate ways, in ways that are not pleasing to God, when God has already promised those things. And it may not be in the way we wanted, or the way that we thought we needed so desperately, but God's ways are so much better. And so really our heart in this ministry is to teach and equip the church how to talk about gender and sexuality, how to reach the LGBT. And one of the things we're going to be doing is creating lots of resources ourselves, but also connecting to lots of resources. So there's things that we're still working on. There's lots of ministries because I have, I have been all over the country talking to lots of ministries. So the Lord has given me lots of connections. So now we want, I hear from people all the time that there's no resources out there, and, but it's not, there are lots of amazing resources out there.

Dona Watson: 22:17

They tend to get buried.

Laura Perry Smalts: 22:20

They do, they do, but there's lots of them out there. And so I, we want to help connect people to those resources and help people have the hope, Christ in this. That God is going to redeem and restore all this junk and everything happening to our culture. That God promises that all things will work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. One thing I've seen is that this has really woken up the church. And you can, I mean, it was like the church was asleep for so long, and like the church of Laodicea in Revelation, and for decades, the church did not deal with LGBT at all. Many churches wouldn't talk about it, many churches wouldn't even allow them in their congregations, you know, or and it was just like, even, I've even heard many stories from back in like 20, 30 years ago, people that had come out of those lifestyles and were repentant still weren't allowed in congregation. You know, I'm certainly not for affirming and celebrating anybody's sin, but for people that are repentant for who are trying to change their life, who have come to Christ and they still weren't allowed in the church. And so I think as a result, God brought it to our front door because now this is in every church that I have, I've been to so many churches. Every church is dealing with this and I think it's really woken up the church and I've, I'm seeing parents now getting radically on fire for Jesus. And it is so exciting to me to see them catch that vision of what God wants for them in this life now. Cause I think we tend to get so focused on our kids and what they need and we forget what God wants for us. And so I think, you know, God has a mission, all of us. And that, so, that's kind of a snapshot though of what we're, our heart really is to to help the parents and to equip them and to equip the church and then to train them to reach the LGBT.

Dona Watson: 24:11

That is an amazing network that you're building up. Are you still traveling and, and seeking speaking engagements?

Laura Perry Smalts: 24:18

Yeah, I do. I, I speak all over the country. And we do that pretty regularly. So please reach out if you would like to bring us. My husband can't travel with me all the time. He has a full time job at State Farm, so he's not able to travel with me all the time, but he does, he has a very gracious boss who gives him some time off to go with me.

Dona Watson: 24:38

Oh, that's awesome. Okay before we end, I want to make sure we get your contact information out there so that people can do some more research and look you up and support you in your ministry and in your efforts. I think this network of connecting resources is so valuable. I think that's going to be super super important. You also have a book that you wrote, published a few years ago. I forget when it was.

Laura Perry Smalts: 25:08

Yeah. Here it is. It's,

Dona Watson: 25:09

Yeah, I've got it back here on my shelf behind me somewhere.

Laura Perry Smalts: 25:13

Oh good. Yeah. Transgender to Transformed. And that came out in 2019. And that is a more detailed version of my story. You know, I do wanna update one thing that is in the last chapter that I need to update. Transgenderism has changed so much. Just since I came out in 2016, there was not the media influence that there is now, this was not being taught in schools. This was not pushed in society really at all. And so there are many kids now, I talked about how, you know, in most cases there was sexual abuse. But now I think kids are being abused by pornography. It's causing the same effect as sexual as like molestation. And so many of these kids will say,"Well, I wasn't ever abused." Well, they probably, I've never, I'm sure there might be some, but I've never known a person who's struggled with gender or sexuality that had not been involved in pornography. And, but of course there are young kids now who I think are just being really confused. They're being told to choose their gender before they understand what that means. Here's just an example, the show about Jazz Jennings. You know, I am Jazz. His real name is Jared from what I've read, but he was at two years old, came to his mom. He said he had a dream about it, but I don't, I mean, he, he came to his mom and said, asked,"When is the good fairy going to turn my penis into a vagina?" No two year old has that language. I mean, clearly somebody told him that and planted that idea in his head. And so, I, you know, I think that happens with a lot of young kids. There was even a boy on a documentary called Transhood. Transhood is quite an insightful documentary. It is not from a Christian or former trans perspective at all. But they accidentally tell a lot of truth, which I think, I'm always amazed as I watch things as how God always puts truth even in secular sources somehow. And so there was this boy who was very young and he was adamant that he was a girl-boy and he liked wearing girl's clothes and all this. Well, the mother and father get divorced and apparently there was a lot of influence from the dad. And I don't know, they never go into detail why that might have been, but they get divorced and she moves in with grandpa, and grandpa's like this real masculine guy, and the boy all of a sudden wants nothing to do with being a girl. He becomes this really masculine boy. And I think so much of it is influence and confusion on these young children who can't quite process what they're feeling. So that is very different, I think, from what it was even 10 years ago.

Dona Watson: 27:48

I agree. I think some of our school districts have really played a huge role in, I don't know what the word is, propaganda.

Laura Perry Smalts: 28:02

Right. Absolutely. Yeah. In fact, I remember a story. A friend that she knew, who had twin girls that were four years old, they were in preschool, and they came home one day and they said,"Mom, guess what we learned in school today?" And she's thinking, a new color, a new letter. And one of them said,"We learned we might have boys inside us." And they were four. But that's what they told them. These kids, I mean, they have no chance when they're, when they're being confused at that early of an age. And I did some research one time, there were 82 that I could find, this was about three years ago. But at that time, there were 82 cartoons targeted to very young children that had LGBTQ characters. And in fact, one of the most, there was a song about pride from, that was have featured a drag queen and these really, really bright colors. And honestly, this song is so catchy. Every time I've worked on video edit, editing some videos to show clips of this, like in my presentations or in other videos, and this song is so catchy, it gets stuck in my head for hours. I can't imagine what these kids, this was played on Nick Jr. to like, you know, three, four, five year olds and it's a song about pride and loving who you are. Doesn't it feel great to be who you are on the inside? The lyrics are just full of propaganda. And so these kids are being confused at young ages.

Dona Watson: 29:30

I think as Christians, one thing that we forget is that Satan was God's worship leader in heaven,

Laura Perry Smalts: 29:37

So true.

Dona Watson: 29:38

He was one of the first creators of beautiful music.

Laura Perry Smalts: 29:43

Yeah,

Dona Watson: 29:43

And when you when you turn things upside down, it goes the wrong way and Satan is very good at creating music that will set a mood and even spell-like to influence you in the way the person wrote the song wants to be. We need to be really, really careful with what we listen to, with what we read, with what we expose ourselves to, what we allow our children to be exposed to. My children are grown now, so I look back and there are some things I wish I would have done a little bit differently. Yeah. Well, you, you learn.

Laura Perry Smalts: 30:26

Yeah.

Dona Watson: 30:27

You learn. And if we can be the voice that will help other people, I'm all about that.

Laura Perry Smalts: 30:34

Right.

Dona Watson: 30:35

Absolutely. Yeah. So I highly recommend that people read your book. It's a quick read. It's really informative. It's raw. It's honest. It's so good. Such a good book. I read it a couple of years ago. It's still stuck with me, I want you to know. And it encouraged me. Very much so. Let's get, make sure they have your contact information. Where can they find you online, Laura?

Laura Perry Smalts: 31:05

They can go to edensredemption.org. And that is our current website. And like I said, we are still adding a lot to that. Keep checking back with us. But we also, we want to be making lots of Q and A videos. That's part of what I'm working on and some other things. So we have a lot of good content coming and we will link our YouTube and our social media from there as well. Once we have everything up and going, like I said, we are, we're pretty new. But I do have a lot of experience. If you're interested in booking me to speak, I've been doing this for about six or seven years. It's just that this new ministry is, I was under a different ministry before. So it's edensredemption.org, there's a contact page there. Or you can also go to my old website that has my old blog and order my books from there. I don't have the ability to order books on the new website yet. I've got to get that set up, but you can go to transgendertotransformed.com. It's the same as the book title. So again, that's transgendertotransformed.com. And check me out there as well.

Dona Watson: 32:05

I will make sure, dot com, right?

Laura Perry Smalts: 32:07

Yeah.

Dona Watson: 32:08

I'll make sure that,

Laura Perry Smalts: 32:09

It's edensredemption.org.

Dona Watson: 32:10

Got it. I'll make sure these links are in the show notes.

Laura Perry Smalts: 32:14

Okay.

Dona Watson: 32:14

So people can just go down in the notes and click through to where you are. I really appreciate you coming and spending some time with us to share your heart and your story. Any other thoughts or things that you want to bring up before we close?

Laura Perry Smalts: 32:33

I just want to say to anybody out there who may be listening who is living as trans and I remember especially when I came to Christ and I was still living as trans and I was so desperate to know that somebody else felt like I did, that somebody had been there, that this was truly possible that, that God could change my heart. God has so completely transformed me. And it's been hard at times this journey, but it's hard to be a Christian. At this time, this Christian life in this broken world is full of tribulation. And yet God's been so faithful. He is, it has been worth every moment. And despite all the difficulty, I am so glad and so thankful that God delivered me out of that lifestyle and that he has redeemed and restored my life. And so I just want to give anyone that hope and for parents out there, yes, keep praying for your child, but seek the Lord for what he wants to do in your life because he wants your life to count for the kingdom as much as theirs.

Dona Watson: 33:32

Absolutely. No, that's, that's really critical. And I want to chime in and agree with you. If anybody is looking for help and having trouble finding resources, please reach out to one of us and we will make sure to get you connected with someone who can support you and talk to you where you are. We'll make sure to do that. Thank you so much, Laura. I appreciate you. God bless you and your ministry wherever you go, whatever you do. I know that God is in this and my prayers are with you.

Laura Perry Smalts: 34:09

Thank you. God bless.

Dona Watson: 34:11

You too.